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Lilian Nattel πŸ“šβ™€πŸŒ's avatar

When I was 7 I was allowed one tv show a week. I chose Bewitched. Even then it bothered me that a woman with unlimited power denied it so that she could be a regular housewife for her husband, as the highest calling. I liked the way her mother who was supposed to be an antagonist was always urging her to use her power. (The husband similarly had to suck up to his boss.) When my daughter was young we watched Bewitched together, both of us cheering the magic and groaning at the trad wife stuff. It's so sad that young women are being lured into this as ideal. And I've read that misogyny is rising among gen alpha boys responding to social media influence. Very concerning. And it's true that it requires complicit women to keep patriarchy going. Is there anything we can do about those women?

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𝙅𝙀 βš’πŸ“–πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ's avatar

I personally only mind when the complicit women try to enforce their values onto all women (eg, denying abortion to all, instead of simply not having one herself). But if a woman wants to be housewife, it's her choice.

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Lilian Nattel πŸ“šβ™€πŸŒ's avatar

Agreed

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Corina Rodriguez's avatar

I really appreciate the way you have laid out. I’m 76 so I have lived through some of this … the birth control, the pressure to participate in free love, the abortion revolution, the pain of losing the equal rights amendment, the merry-go-round of being the β€œeverything woman” β€”working a full time professional job with a perfect house and 2.3 perfect children, entertaining 20 people with a flick of the hand and always looking picture perfect at all times plus providing loving support your man. It was an impossible trip but it was better than other options. I found other options the hard way.

The women that I sometimes feel like slapping upside the head are the ones who have all the privileges we fought so hard to gain and use them to put other women down, stuff us back into economic, social and sexual bondage.

Feels like we need another great to awakening to

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𝙅𝙀 βš’πŸ“–πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ's avatar

Thank you so much for sharing. I wasn't here for the birth control / free love era (though I live in the Haight near Ashbury in San Francisco, so I feel very connected to it), but it feels like we still have those arguments, or maybe that we're slipping back toward that.

And yes to slapping upside the head, and we definitely need a new great awakening! I'm trying to do my small part to get us there.

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Miko's avatar

This makes me think of the Norwegian novel Constance Ring by Amalie Skram from 1885 where the main character tries to divorce her husband but is advised/forced by every other person, including her family and women friends to stay in the marriage Β«for her own goodΒ». The women around her truly believe that a divorce would make her life worse in every single way, talking about things like Β«social deathΒ» and Β«wouldn’t want to end up having to workΒ». The author fought for women’s rights and divorced her first husband, but only after going through the same denial from the world around her and a Β«nervous breakdownΒ».

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Jee Young Park's avatar

Thanks for this and for highlighting the cruelty of women towards other women. So often that is left out or justified as some sort of necessary feminist militancy or justification to ostracize women who do not fall into neat boxes of perfect feminists. Sometimes I think people assume feminism means we are meant to conform when it can be just as useful to diverge and show the full range of options available, which can include a curiosity about masculinity and asserting our right to comment on it.

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𝙅𝙀 βš’πŸ“–πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ's avatar

Agree with your comment re: conformity to an ideal within feminism. I think too often, feminism is set up as a binary (male = bad, female = good), which is a reductively broad take.

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Brenden O'Donnell's avatar

Oof…I’m so sad you had to write this. And I’m so glad we have you to synthesize these threads and put them into historical context.

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𝙅𝙀 βš’πŸ“–πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ's avatar

Oh I think trolls are inevitable (once I got over the initial shock, it's fine).

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JP Halpin's avatar

Gosh this was so good to read. I want all young women to read this!! Thank you πŸ’›

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𝙅𝙀 βš’πŸ“–πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ's avatar

Feel free to share it!

Glad you liked it.

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Feminist Science's avatar

Thank you for laying all this out! It was a really comprehensive read and totally agree. I've been reading some essays by Dworkin and she connects all these thoughts that I've had floating around in my head but couldn't articulate.

On makeup: I hate makeup. I work in STEM lab and factory spaces, where things like high heels, fake nails, makeup, are not allowed since it's dangerous and could contaminate experiments or product...well some women still wear it anyway. Some think that "fighting" for the right to wear makeup in these spaces is somehow feminism?

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𝙅𝙀 βš’πŸ“–πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ's avatar

Three of her books were recently republished - 'Right Wing Women' is my favorite and I strongly recommend her books also.

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Shennae Davies's avatar

where does Dworkin get the idea of 9 million? i think that's a lot of people even over centuries, wouldn't they have run out of women

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𝙅𝙀 βš’πŸ“–πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ's avatar

From the writing and records of churches/church elders.

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Apr 25
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𝙅𝙀 βš’πŸ“–πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ's avatar

I'm glad it resonated with you.

It's strange, the lengths mothers go through to instill that into their children :/

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