beautiful impassioned writing as always, thank you for taking a risk to post something different ! and i completely agree with you about the glorification of porn, there's way way way too much misogynistic violence and racism in porn for me to trust people who advocate for it wholesale. i feel so bad for the kids who see the most brutal parts of it so young and for the girls and women and my friends!!!!! who have decided they're "submissive" simply because of their exposure to porn & porn culture. & i say this as someone who is into kinky and unusual sex... the same way people should interrogate their own taste in partners and aesthetics and gender performance, they should interrogate their preferences in sex. thanks for sharing <3
Yes! I added the pro-porn perspectives I read were white people because I think they don't see how racist so much porn is.
And yes to the girls who say they're "submissive" because they're taught they have to be to be cool - I had a friend who is a "slave" to a man more than 2x her age, and she was seriously injured by another woman doing kink - so injured she's needed two years of treatment. She's so deep into it that she posts multiple times a day on FL and probably couldn't get a regular job if she tried (her parents are well off) - it doesn't seem emotionally healthy at all.
And yes, too, I'm not arguing against kinky or unusual sex - I think both are great, within reason (like serious choking and breath play are too risky, IMO). But I don't think kids should be watching porn when they're 12.
that is so painful to hear about your friend, if we can admit that general internet brainrot is real then we should admit that porn-specific brainrot is also real tbh.
also, the kind of racism that exists in porn was so shocking to me the first time i saw it, and by the third time i saw it i was wondering if all mainstream porn was this racist and if it was an epidemic and why weren't we talking about it????? this was years ago and i think i actually tried to find articles about it but came up short (partially because i was young and still at home and nervous about researching the topic at all)- but even now i'm actually astounded that we don't discuss it as a society more often. collectively, we let things pass in porn that would absolutely be reported-discussed-thinkpieced to ruin if found elsewhere
Yeah, porn-specific brain rot is I think why people are speaking up against porn now. I don't know if you've read about AI girlfriends and AI brothels, but they're awful - they do fake child abuse and fake r*pe, but instead of just watching like with poirn, the user gets to participate. It's disgusting.
Yeah, you can see the racism in the maps that I was talking about -- that the most racist parts of the U.S. watch interracial porn, for example.
When I write about racism, I usually get unsubscribes and fewer likes than my average posts. I think that's one reason why people write think pieces on racism - it doesn't get as many likes. But I agree, and would love to see some research and more think pieces on racism in porn.
I absolutely loved this, and it was quite refreshing to read a contemporary take on the porn wars that acknowledged the dangers of pro-pornography blurring the lines between sexploitation and the transgressive boundaries of queerness, which is often overshadowed by most anti-porn arguments I've seen that revolve around assimilating lesbian sexuality into women's sexuality. I don't know if you've read I'm Afraid of Men by Vivek Shraya, but this essay reminded me of a quote that really stuck with me in that book.
"Queerness is associated with the freedom from boundaries. Thus, any boundary is inherently un-queer."
Obviously, BDSM can be practiced safely if, like you and others have said, is thoroughly researched, communicated, and consensual, but that's not how most people acquire knowledge of it. I think something that fuels the unecessary hatred towards many anti-porn feminists is that many people on the pro-porn side immediately assume they are against the researched practice of it, likely because they are trapped in their bubble of defending themselves.
I have written about this in the past, criticizing one's execution of an anti-porn perspective, but again, my mind changes as I gain new information, and I know more now than I did then. My biggest issue with the pro-porn movement (as well as the ugly side of the anti-porn movement) is that their arguments end up targeting vulnerable bodies for the sake of defending their point. It is just as present on the pro-porn side, that encouraging pornography targets children with access to the internet, which at this point is almost everyone in gen z and alpha. The excess of porn, the "transgressive" parts of it have become the first introduction most of this generation has had to sex, and taking the BDSM quiz was a fun activity in middle school for my friends and I (which is INSANE). This excess has been criticized in many other mainstream displays of sexuality, especially with abrina carpenter, where the only things that are shown are the parts of sex that crossed over past the unsexy threshold.
If pro-porn individuals are afraid of the material consequences of anti-porn feminists targeting their vulnerable bodies, they should be acknowledging the material consequences of porn, which is that it is an addiction, mainstream BDSM practices aren't learned safely, and people can get injured mentally and physically.
" My biggest issue with the pro-porn movement (as well as the ugly side of the anti-porn movement) is that their arguments end up targeting vulnerable bodies for the sake of defending their point. It is just as present on the pro-porn side, that encouraging pornography targets children with access to the internet, which at this point is almost everyone in gen z and alpha. "
I love this.
Yes, I think both the anti-porn and the pro-porn miss a lot; become entrenched in their viewpoint, use the most extreme examples. They talk over each other, addressing different issues. The pro-porn people seemingly presume that talking about children accessing porn is an excuse to marginalize people instead of genuine concern for children and teens. They focus on one possibility and ignore another reality. The anti-porn people seemingly never consider that their arguments make people feel guilt and shame for healthy sexuality, and never account for the joy, creativity, and connection that comes from sex, instead focusing so narrowly on bad, non-consensual sex that they forget that sex can be very good. And same goes for pro-BDSM and anti-BDSM people; that the pro-BDSM folks don't acknowledge that a lot of actual abusers will say they're just 'dominant' or 'sadistic', but then the anti-BDSM people just shame and vilify people for their private desires instead of talking about the potential for abuse and real harm/injury.
I have readers who are a mix of ages. One interesting trend I've noticed is that my gen Z readers acknowledge the harm of porn over the internet, of how sexuality has become less healthy and more transgressive and extreme because of it. While the older women - 60+ - when I write an essay about porn, or the increasing pressure on people to have more sex and more extreme sex, will say that's not true, even when I cite facts. The last time I wrote something about porn, the only person defending it fell into that category. It's wild because those older folks, I think, don't see how norms have changed, the difference between occasion access for adults and the 24/7 escalating, violent images through the internet. I'm in the middle, millennial, so the internet was there but it was chat rooms and early social media, not as entrenched as it is now.
I haven't read I'm Afraid of Men by Vivek Shraya, but I'll try to get a copy soon.
And thanks for reading this! I thought about you and your earlier essay when I wrote it, and I'm glad you liked it instead of getting upset about it :)
I definitely understand why you'd imagine I feel upset, but I am quite more anti-pornography than my essay lead on to believe. Since the arguments that were being made weren't about cyberspace, I was definitely more on the side of trying to protect already existing on-site adult (emphasis adult) spaces where lesbians have unfolded lots of their history. However, cyberspace wasn't a thing then, and I truly believe it is one of the biggest dangers when producing harmful events towards vulnerable bodies.
I think older folks don't realize that the sexuality that we find harmful isn't really harmful because it simply exists, but it's how we come to know about it. I wish Gen X and above, the same ones who complain about how much the younger generations have lost their marbles, refuse to acknowledge that there are external forces that are literally sensitizing us to violent, unrealistic, 24/7 accessible pornography from a young age. I hope that they realize that acquiring their practices through actual events, as fully fledged adults, and knowing their sit is actually an immense privilege, and the younger the generations go, the less we have access to safe sex.
Great essay. Nicely researched. Back when she was so widely published, I read most of bell hooks' books. I always remember and explain her concept of "the other."
I forgot to say, I truly applaud you for acknowledging that historically we make mistakes, no matter how progressive and we can and do forward those same mistakes often. (I read this twice and had different thoughts pop up after the second round).
I am told I point out the wrong things often, but I believe it’s that attention, those details, that in the end will progress real change. We as society want everyone to conform but it’s the non conforming part of society that continue to shift and force real change. We have to acknowledge the good with the bad, or at least I have learned that those that acknowledge both are more attuned to actually creating change not just the performance of allyship for their own progress or purpose.
Yes, 100% agreed. This is one of the primary aspects of my own writing, albeit through a very indirect metaphorical/mythological lens. It’s great to see other people expressing this and it’s an aspect of your writing, Jo, that I also appreciate. It’s a challenge to face the good and bad within ourselves and how that reflects culturally/societally but it’s ever more critical. 🙏
I love that you told me that - that you read it 2x, and that it made you think of different things the second time around. That's everything I want to hear from readers -- that my writing makes them rethink things, and different things.
Yes, I think we all make mistakes, movements included. A little strange to point to the mistakes of LGBT+ movement during Pride month, I suppose though.
Thanks! It's a bit of a style departure for me, more candid, more emotional, more of a stream of consciousness instead of the highly outlined and pre-planned - different from what I usually write.
beautiful impassioned writing as always, thank you for taking a risk to post something different ! and i completely agree with you about the glorification of porn, there's way way way too much misogynistic violence and racism in porn for me to trust people who advocate for it wholesale. i feel so bad for the kids who see the most brutal parts of it so young and for the girls and women and my friends!!!!! who have decided they're "submissive" simply because of their exposure to porn & porn culture. & i say this as someone who is into kinky and unusual sex... the same way people should interrogate their own taste in partners and aesthetics and gender performance, they should interrogate their preferences in sex. thanks for sharing <3
Yes! I added the pro-porn perspectives I read were white people because I think they don't see how racist so much porn is.
And yes to the girls who say they're "submissive" because they're taught they have to be to be cool - I had a friend who is a "slave" to a man more than 2x her age, and she was seriously injured by another woman doing kink - so injured she's needed two years of treatment. She's so deep into it that she posts multiple times a day on FL and probably couldn't get a regular job if she tried (her parents are well off) - it doesn't seem emotionally healthy at all.
And yes, too, I'm not arguing against kinky or unusual sex - I think both are great, within reason (like serious choking and breath play are too risky, IMO). But I don't think kids should be watching porn when they're 12.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply 🩷
that is so painful to hear about your friend, if we can admit that general internet brainrot is real then we should admit that porn-specific brainrot is also real tbh.
also, the kind of racism that exists in porn was so shocking to me the first time i saw it, and by the third time i saw it i was wondering if all mainstream porn was this racist and if it was an epidemic and why weren't we talking about it????? this was years ago and i think i actually tried to find articles about it but came up short (partially because i was young and still at home and nervous about researching the topic at all)- but even now i'm actually astounded that we don't discuss it as a society more often. collectively, we let things pass in porn that would absolutely be reported-discussed-thinkpieced to ruin if found elsewhere
Yeah, porn-specific brain rot is I think why people are speaking up against porn now. I don't know if you've read about AI girlfriends and AI brothels, but they're awful - they do fake child abuse and fake r*pe, but instead of just watching like with poirn, the user gets to participate. It's disgusting.
Yeah, you can see the racism in the maps that I was talking about -- that the most racist parts of the U.S. watch interracial porn, for example.
When I write about racism, I usually get unsubscribes and fewer likes than my average posts. I think that's one reason why people write think pieces on racism - it doesn't get as many likes. But I agree, and would love to see some research and more think pieces on racism in porn.
You are right. I didn't realize how racist porn is.
Great essay!
thank you!
I absolutely loved this, and it was quite refreshing to read a contemporary take on the porn wars that acknowledged the dangers of pro-pornography blurring the lines between sexploitation and the transgressive boundaries of queerness, which is often overshadowed by most anti-porn arguments I've seen that revolve around assimilating lesbian sexuality into women's sexuality. I don't know if you've read I'm Afraid of Men by Vivek Shraya, but this essay reminded me of a quote that really stuck with me in that book.
"Queerness is associated with the freedom from boundaries. Thus, any boundary is inherently un-queer."
Obviously, BDSM can be practiced safely if, like you and others have said, is thoroughly researched, communicated, and consensual, but that's not how most people acquire knowledge of it. I think something that fuels the unecessary hatred towards many anti-porn feminists is that many people on the pro-porn side immediately assume they are against the researched practice of it, likely because they are trapped in their bubble of defending themselves.
I have written about this in the past, criticizing one's execution of an anti-porn perspective, but again, my mind changes as I gain new information, and I know more now than I did then. My biggest issue with the pro-porn movement (as well as the ugly side of the anti-porn movement) is that their arguments end up targeting vulnerable bodies for the sake of defending their point. It is just as present on the pro-porn side, that encouraging pornography targets children with access to the internet, which at this point is almost everyone in gen z and alpha. The excess of porn, the "transgressive" parts of it have become the first introduction most of this generation has had to sex, and taking the BDSM quiz was a fun activity in middle school for my friends and I (which is INSANE). This excess has been criticized in many other mainstream displays of sexuality, especially with abrina carpenter, where the only things that are shown are the parts of sex that crossed over past the unsexy threshold.
If pro-porn individuals are afraid of the material consequences of anti-porn feminists targeting their vulnerable bodies, they should be acknowledging the material consequences of porn, which is that it is an addiction, mainstream BDSM practices aren't learned safely, and people can get injured mentally and physically.
" My biggest issue with the pro-porn movement (as well as the ugly side of the anti-porn movement) is that their arguments end up targeting vulnerable bodies for the sake of defending their point. It is just as present on the pro-porn side, that encouraging pornography targets children with access to the internet, which at this point is almost everyone in gen z and alpha. "
I love this.
Yes, I think both the anti-porn and the pro-porn miss a lot; become entrenched in their viewpoint, use the most extreme examples. They talk over each other, addressing different issues. The pro-porn people seemingly presume that talking about children accessing porn is an excuse to marginalize people instead of genuine concern for children and teens. They focus on one possibility and ignore another reality. The anti-porn people seemingly never consider that their arguments make people feel guilt and shame for healthy sexuality, and never account for the joy, creativity, and connection that comes from sex, instead focusing so narrowly on bad, non-consensual sex that they forget that sex can be very good. And same goes for pro-BDSM and anti-BDSM people; that the pro-BDSM folks don't acknowledge that a lot of actual abusers will say they're just 'dominant' or 'sadistic', but then the anti-BDSM people just shame and vilify people for their private desires instead of talking about the potential for abuse and real harm/injury.
I have readers who are a mix of ages. One interesting trend I've noticed is that my gen Z readers acknowledge the harm of porn over the internet, of how sexuality has become less healthy and more transgressive and extreme because of it. While the older women - 60+ - when I write an essay about porn, or the increasing pressure on people to have more sex and more extreme sex, will say that's not true, even when I cite facts. The last time I wrote something about porn, the only person defending it fell into that category. It's wild because those older folks, I think, don't see how norms have changed, the difference between occasion access for adults and the 24/7 escalating, violent images through the internet. I'm in the middle, millennial, so the internet was there but it was chat rooms and early social media, not as entrenched as it is now.
I haven't read I'm Afraid of Men by Vivek Shraya, but I'll try to get a copy soon.
And thanks for reading this! I thought about you and your earlier essay when I wrote it, and I'm glad you liked it instead of getting upset about it :)
I definitely understand why you'd imagine I feel upset, but I am quite more anti-pornography than my essay lead on to believe. Since the arguments that were being made weren't about cyberspace, I was definitely more on the side of trying to protect already existing on-site adult (emphasis adult) spaces where lesbians have unfolded lots of their history. However, cyberspace wasn't a thing then, and I truly believe it is one of the biggest dangers when producing harmful events towards vulnerable bodies.
I think older folks don't realize that the sexuality that we find harmful isn't really harmful because it simply exists, but it's how we come to know about it. I wish Gen X and above, the same ones who complain about how much the younger generations have lost their marbles, refuse to acknowledge that there are external forces that are literally sensitizing us to violent, unrealistic, 24/7 accessible pornography from a young age. I hope that they realize that acquiring their practices through actual events, as fully fledged adults, and knowing their sit is actually an immense privilege, and the younger the generations go, the less we have access to safe sex.
Great essay. Nicely researched. Back when she was so widely published, I read most of bell hooks' books. I always remember and explain her concept of "the other."
Thank you!
I love bell hooks' work, have read most of it too, and refer to her often in my essay.
I forgot to say, I truly applaud you for acknowledging that historically we make mistakes, no matter how progressive and we can and do forward those same mistakes often. (I read this twice and had different thoughts pop up after the second round).
I am told I point out the wrong things often, but I believe it’s that attention, those details, that in the end will progress real change. We as society want everyone to conform but it’s the non conforming part of society that continue to shift and force real change. We have to acknowledge the good with the bad, or at least I have learned that those that acknowledge both are more attuned to actually creating change not just the performance of allyship for their own progress or purpose.
I think you're right. And I loved your comment so much I shared it to notes (which I didn't know I could do!)
Yes, 100% agreed. This is one of the primary aspects of my own writing, albeit through a very indirect metaphorical/mythological lens. It’s great to see other people expressing this and it’s an aspect of your writing, Jo, that I also appreciate. It’s a challenge to face the good and bad within ourselves and how that reflects culturally/societally but it’s ever more critical. 🙏
I love that you told me that - that you read it 2x, and that it made you think of different things the second time around. That's everything I want to hear from readers -- that my writing makes them rethink things, and different things.
Yes, I think we all make mistakes, movements included. A little strange to point to the mistakes of LGBT+ movement during Pride month, I suppose though.
“Once every 68 seconds” physically hurt to read that. Thank you for this great article and as always your diligent research and candid thoughts.
Thanks! It's a bit of a style departure for me, more candid, more emotional, more of a stream of consciousness instead of the highly outlined and pre-planned - different from what I usually write.
I could feel that there was a need to respond but as always you back up your claims with solid research and lived experience.